Sunday, May 07, 2006

Oh, It's Hard To Be a Man

Over at Rachels Tavern there's a discussion on alcohol consumption and date rape. The original scenario:

Here's a situation - A man and woman, both intoxicated, go home together and end up having some sort of sexual intercourse. The next morning they both wake up, except they both really can't remember what happened. All they know is they woke up naked next to one another. Then the girl files a complaint of sexual assault.

Do you believe this was rape?

I think it's a very tough call. There is no way to tell what was said or done once the 2 individuals began hooking up. I agree with admin's advice...guys should not sleep with girls who are intoxicated. It can lead to bad things.

"guys should not sleep with girls who are intoxicated. It can lead to bad things."

Now maybe I'm wrong, but the bad things seems to refer less to RAPE than to pesky, unfortunate allegations of rape lodged against innocent men. I hope I'm wrong.

I can also recall one episode when I was hitting on two beautiful young coeds only to wake up the next morning with their plain looking friend.

Golly, maybe that's the bad thing we were warned of. He thought he was gonna tap two hot asses and instead woke up with equivalent of a blow-up doll.

Social diseases and the real possibility of a false claim are reason enough for young men to be careful in such situations. But we really need to stop this primitive thinking when it comes to women and sex. Men and women should enjoy the same notion of responsibility as well as privilege when it comes to sex.

"The real possibility of a false claim of rape"-it's a dangerous world for men. Why aren't we fighting for equal rights for men? Men will never be free until we end all of the false rape allegations. Everyone knows that rape is a rare crime. Yet countless men are savaged by these false claims leveled by uptight women.

You know what puts me on the verge of vomiting? Seeing this statement:

Men and women should enjoy the same notion of responsibility as well as privilege when it comes to sex.

used as evidence that women's behavior needs to change. Sure, all men live in fear of being raped or being charged with rape. Women can go anywhere, anytime safely, but men are prisoners in their own homes. Women are safe at home, but men are raped by women they know more than by strangers. Men and women should enjoy the same responsibility and privilige, indeed.

I haven't got the strenght to get into the comments, dear readers. I simply don't have a strong enough stomach. The lowlights: 1) It's too hard and not fair for a man to have to obtain consent, so consent should be assumed and 2) let's talk about the rape of men, because that's just as important, dammit!

I'm off to find my Mylanta.


cameo said...

no no my friend... put the mylanta away and commense barfing. then let the equality starved men clean it up like their mama's used to do for them. and then we hope that they don't falsely charge you with exposing them to harmful body fluids. that would be a "BAD THING!"

le lyons said...

Ick. I can't even read such things. It just annoys and disgusts me. I am sure for some people having that conversation is a positive thing, but I basically hate arguing for the sake of arguing. It's like that new movie, "Thank You for Smoking" - anyone who is good at debating can twist anything to mean whatever the hell they want it to mean. Meanwhile those of us who know the truth waste our time going in circles with those jackasses. I am glad you didn't read the comments Spotted. It's not worth your energy. Unless of course you have food poisoning and need a catalyst so that you can finally vomit and feel better (sort of like looking at the sun if you need to sneeze but can't quite do it).

Hey - when did you change your blog? I like it. I also like that you are using a big font, because sometimes the black background with the light text is difficult to read, but not here. It's lovely!

spotted elephant said...

Cameo-Thanks, you made me laugh out loud and I needed that.

Lauren-I'm always torn between saving myself and raising awareness. I don't think any awareness is raised in those situations. :( You're right about the presentation: if you're good at debating, and know how to phrase things, you can make lies seem real. It's so frustrating. Unfortunately, not only did I read the comments, but I left 2 comments. All it did was raise my blood pressure. I was trying to avoid that here.

Thanks for the feedback on the blog. I just changed it-Friday I think. I was going for something simpler. I have trouble reading some blogs because of the font size and/or background, so I'm glad this is OK. The default font on this template is TINY and painful to read.

Laurelin said...

I;ve been arguing with a troll today, on I'm Not A Feminist, But... I'm going to have to leave it now I think. It's driving me mad!

I feel that one should never feel guilty for backing off from troll confrontations, because they are draining and frustrating. The energy can always be used elsewhere, such as refuting popular 'arguments' on one's own blog.

Kim said...

Ugh--what a horrible, horrible article. I hate this crap so much.
Woke up with the "ugly girl." Assbag.

But on a lighter note:

Rachel S said...

I totally agree with you here. Unfortunately, these guys represent quite a few men. Unfortunately, it tells you how far we have to go on rape education.

Thanks, for helping me take them on.

Justjuliefornow said...

I am not usually about the ends justifying the means - in fact I have a huge aversion to it - but, if the fear of a "false accusation" makes even one of these idiots think twice about forcing a women then let this article have a chilling affect on the idiots.

I say this seriously as I have 2 nieces in college who I worry about all the time. It would be far better if all men simply understood that it is WRONG, but sometimes you have to work with less than the ideal.

Rachel S said...

It's Rachel agains. I realized you maight have been thinking that Carl's quote reflected my stated. What I actually said was this, "If I was going to give advice to a college age son, I would also give this advice. "Do not have sex with an intoxicated woman and do not have sex when you are intoxicated. First, judgment is impaired when people are drinking. Second, her ability to consent is impaired when she is drunk or high. If she can't provide consent, then it is rape." That is a very important lesson. I have had students scoff at me for giving that advice, but it is very practical advice."

Anyways, I put up a really long response to those guys in the post.

Rachel S said...

Sorry for the typos....

spotted elephant said...

Laurelin-That's a great perspective, because they will drain all your energy. I just have trouble sometimes worrying "maybe this person isn't a troll, just grossly misinformed" and I go round and roudn.

Kaka-I woke up this morning because Bumble was chewing on the bed (sigh), and I remembered I'd forgotten (is that the worst sentence ever) bunny blogging. And I thought of you-because I know you read very early in the morning. You were Bumble's first dedicated reader. He's furious with me for depriving you of him. (Another great sentence.)

Rachel-I appreciate you tangling with the subject. I could feel my temper going, and decided not to rant in your comments. :)

Julie-Agreed-ends justifying the means gives me the willies, but you know, let them think twice. Or three times, etc.

Rachel-I thought your position was very clear: rape is always wrong and we have to *think* about when someone can and can't consent. I know once a conversation really gets going back and forth, it can get hazy but you were clear.

Also, no need to apologize for typos. I write things like "I remembered I forgot...". :)

Rachel S said...

What is interesting is how much more patience I have for sexists comments than I have for racist comments. I don't know what that says about me, but I have come to realize that about myself over the past several weeks. I think that is why I am able to deal with these guys without busting a blood vessel. They really are crazy.....

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
manxome said...

Ugh, I just can't go there. Every ooky comment would feel like a personal attack. Thanks for the warning.

Laurelin said...

Spotted Elephant- my problem is that I can't let anything alone, and I get so mad, knowing I can trounce their arguments. But that's with me assuming that they are arguing rationally, and they just aren't. I'm trying to back off from an argument on the I'm Not a Feminist, But... because I'm not going to get anywhere.

I just hate hearing such ignorant, vile woman-hating bullshit that they spew. Like 'rape is because of poverty and desperation'. Nothing to do with male priviledge of course...

Okay, I'm backing off from it. I'm going to follow my own advice for once!

Spc. Freeman said...

My logic is this: any rape charge hinges on the implication of consent. When a person is intoxicated, their ability and competency in giving consent is legally dubious. So as a male, if your partner alleges rape in a situation like that, you are ultimately responsible. As a man, I can accept that, and I have a hard time sympathizing with those who can't.

Anonymous said...

This is true. Men are held to a higher standard. If he has two drinks and has sex with someone he wishes he didn't, he just has to take responsibility for it, but if a woman has two drinks, aggresively seduces a boys for sex and she regrets it in the morning, she can cry rape to absolve herself from any responsibility.

cameo said...

yes, she can. and unfortunatly some do. but let's get real here. higher standards? no, no, just responsibility. when men have to walk in this world fearful of being raped, then you comment will hold water. let's not disregard the horrors of rape just to make the world a "safer" place for men to get laid. please.

spotted elephant said...

Rachel-I'm glad you don't lose your temper. I think I could be much more effective if that was true for me.

Manxome-I really like how you added this in to your "head exploding" post. :)

Laurelin-I'm right there with you-backing off is almost impossible once you get that mad. It's as if I think I will actually get through to them. Why do I think this? I may print your comment out and tape it to my computer: back off! Save yourself!

Spc. Freeman-Exactly! If we take the discussion to another area-anything involving losing your rights, it should be obvious that it's obscene to do things to people when they are drunk/medicated/impaired. Why is this so difficult?

Anonymous-Oh, I'm sorry you're afraid to leave a name-even a nickname! It's horrible to live in fear, isn't it?

spotted elephant said...

Cameo-I must have been posting right when you were-missed your comment.

And I'm sorry I missed it-very nicely summarized! As Manxome said: equal privilege means equal responsibility. Until then, shut up.

So yeah, when men live in fear of rape, then we can talk about equal responsibility. Although I hope it goes in the opposite direction: women and men have less to fear rather than things getting worse for men.

And what pisses me off the most is exactly what you said: it's all whining over easy chances to get laid. Now I need Mylanta again.